Dallas-Fort Worth Real Estate Investor Club

Income tax and wraps

  • 08 Feb 2013 7:19 PM
    Message # 1203033
    Howdy all,
    I'm new around here. Been lurking for awhile and decide to join :-)

    Would appreciate your input on this.
    I have a few rentals (with underlying loans) that I am looking to do wraps on and I was wondering about
    the income tax aspect of wraps. I know that I can treat these as installment sales (I have them for 1+ years)
    but what if I acquire properties subject to the loan and immediately wrap that to an end buyer.
    Anyone here doing these types of deals?
    Will I be still able to do these transactions as installment sales for income tax purposes? or with they be
    considered inventory (dealer props) where all income tax will be due in the year of the sale?

    In this case it may become a nightmare if I have to do a deed in lieu since I did not receive all the income as yet.

    Thanks
    -hassan
  • 09 Feb 2013 7:00 AM
    Reply # 1203354 on 1203033
    Robin Carriger (Administrator)

    Some of us do sub2 deals, but, given the various points you referenced, it's going to be difficult to adequately address your question without asking several other questions.  I'll resist that temptation for now.  With that said, I'll take a shot at answering.  Disclaimer:  I'm not an attorney or CPA, so I'm not giving official legal advice or tax advice.

    It sounds like you're talking about doing sub2 deals with an owner-fi wrap exit strategy.  One way of doing it is to get the original owner to deed the property to a trust, your company "buys" the beneficial interest in the trust, and then the trust wraps it to your owner-fi buyer.  A bank will likely require a tax id number for the trust in order to let you open a bank account for the trust, so, if you obtain a tax id for the trust in order to open the bank account, you can then file an independent tax return for the trust.  I'm guessing that your actual profit will fairly low after collecting the loan payments from your owner-fi buyer and then paying the underlying note each month, so the trust's tax burden each year shouldn't be that big.

    There are LOTS of ways to sub2 deals.  What I've described above is just one possible way of handling one of many aspects of a sub2 deal.  Everyone reading this should understand that sub2 deals have a lot of moving parts and can be quite complex, so proceed with caution.  I hope this helps.  Good luck!

  • 09 Feb 2013 11:00 AM
    Reply # 1203497 on 1203033
    Hi Robin,
    Thanks for taking a stab.

    In your example, do you know if the trust would be taxed on the full amount of the profit or can it be treated
    as in installment sale - I hear different things from different folks (even CPAs).
    E.g.
    I did a sub2 deal as follows:
    Seller deed to my trust for outstanding note balance of 100K
    I spent 10K to fix up
    Basis 110K
    I wrap to my buyer for 130K
    My unrealized profit: 20K

    Do I pay tax on the entire 20K in the year of the sale or can I treat it as an installment sale (pay
    tax as I collect the payments)



  • 10 Feb 2013 11:27 AM
    Reply # 1204043 on 1203033
    Robin Carriger (Administrator)

    Unless you actually received the full $20K profit at the time of the sale, I'd be really surprised if any one thought you'd be required to pay taxes on the full $20K for that year.  Let's say you don't actually realize the full $20K profit in the year of the sale, but you pay taxes on the full $20K for that year.  You'd be upside down right off the bat!  Now... What if your buyer defaults the next year well before you see anything close to the $20K in profit?  That makes no sense at all.

    Taxes should be paid on profit realized; not on profit you might realize if someone else (your buyer) pays you like he's supposed to over many years to come.

    In my opinion, your note with your buyer should have a 2 or 3 year balloon in it to help you encourage your buyer to get his credit repaired and to get into a loan with another lender ASAP.  When your buyer refinances, as long the house will appraise for the $130K, you should get your $20K in profit at that time.

    BTW, Priority 1 Credit Solutions is the best credit repair company.  I'd give them a call ASAP to discuss the possibility of getting your buyer's credit repaired.  You can give Allan Miller a call a 817-229-4289 or Andrew Miller at 469-450-3230.  Please tell them I said "Hello" when you call.

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