Dallas-Fort Worth Real Estate Investor Club

Question(s) regarding realtor ethics

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  • 30 May 2015 12:32 AM
    Message # 3362935

    A longish rant hoping for some feedback and opinions from folks who know much more about the way real estate works than I do:

    My former residence in Arlington has been on the market for the last year.  My own realtor is a shady character with questionable ethics (I chose poorly).  We have negotiated a pending contract on the house with a realtor/investor for more than 10% less than the listing price, to be sold "as is".  Know issues which were listed on the seller's disclosure included extensive roof damage and several blown window seals, accepted as part of the discounted price.  The contract included a 20 day option period which expires on May 31.

    This morning I received an email from my realtor including a forwarded email from the buyer's agent regarding issues with the home inspection of which foundation concerns were most significant.  The email was dated May 27 but only provided to me today (May 29).  The buyer's agent sent two signed TREC documents requesting either termination of the contract as it was written, or an additional 5% off the contractual price based on issues found at the time of a foundation inspection.

    The home inspector noted fascia cracks in the exterior brick facade and recommended additional scrutiny by a foundation company.  The buyer's agent reported that the inspecting foundation company found issues requiring repairs ranging from $30K-$53K including foundation work, drainage issues, and expected repairs to plumbing damaged during the process.

    I was understandably upset that I had not received this information in a timely manner, and that I was facing making a hurried decision without complete information.  I wanted to get a second opinion about the foundation issues, but because of the late notice one business day before the option period expired, I wouldn't be able to make that happen.  I asked my realtor for a copy of the foundation company's report and findings.

    I also informed my realtor that the fascia cracks were present--and unchanged--since I bought the house in 2004.  At that time, a foundation inspection performed at the recommendation of my home inspector revealed no significant issues which would have preventing me from buying the house.  Another informal foundation inspection two years ago also revealed no issues.  And none of the houses in the neighborhood have had significant foundation issues or undergone repairs to my knowledge.  I realize weather conditions have been harsh over the past few years and things could change, but their findings were surprising and unexpected.

    The buyer's agent was unsure which company they used for the foundation inspection but provided two names to my realtor.  When my realtor contacted these companies, neither one had performed a foundation inspection on my property.  In other words, the buyer's agent's account of the "foundation issues" was a complete fabrication.  Obviously it was designed and timed to make me acquiesce to the additional discount on the property before the option period expired.

    In addition to being outraged about this bald-faced lie--for which I plan to file a complaint of the buyer's agent with the NAR board of ethics--I am concerned about two other things:

    1)  The fact that my own realtor did not pass information on to me in a timely manner.  He has a pattern of doing this:  when the initial 6-month listing contract between us expired, it continued on a month-to-month basis pending my signature/approval.  As I was displeased with his marketing efforts, at several times I have favored terminating the relationship, however he would "throw me a bone" and call or email on the last day of the month with some fantastic pending offer or interested client.  Later though, when I received the official activity report from their office, no such offer or client existed.  This current contract was actually negotiated after I technically "fired" him; he called later that day to say he had an investor interested in the property, and asked if I would consider the offer.  Although I can't prove it, I suspect this was a manufactured story involving a previously established relationship between him and this particularly investor, which makes me very uneasy, especially in light of the way recent (and likely planned) events have unfolded.

    2)  The fact that my own realtor didn't show any interest or offense in the buyer's agent's baloney story of the foundation issues.  It was only at my insistence that they pursued obtaining an actual report of the findings, a report that doesn't exist.  Which doesn't seem to bother him in the least, again supporting my theory that these agents are working within a previously established relationship for mutual benefit without concern for my interests.  All I have received from his office at this point is an apology from his administrative assistant taking blame for the delayed email and an offer to extend the already prolonged option period another 4 days so that a real foundation inspection can be performed, without any reference to the elephant in the room. 

    I don't know how a legit foundation inspection will affect this contract and process, however I expect something will come up and the buyer's agent will terminate the contract or try to renegotiate the price without basis, and my agent will once again prove uninterested in being my advocate.  Through this process I have concluded that he is either very lazy or unethical, or both, which is very disappointing.  Other than terminating the relationship, I am not sure what recourse I have (report him to the board of ethics as well? renegotiate the terms of the realtor contract?).  Termination is probably the best and most satisfying option, but leaving a viable offer on the table is hard to do.

    Any opinions or suggestions are appreciated.  I'm trying to use this as a learning experience as that is probably all I will get out of it.

    Sincere thanks,

    Mary Beth Vono



  • 31 May 2015 10:34 AM
    Reply # 3364033 on 3362935
    Deleted user

    Hi, Mary Beth.

    I'm no expert (think of this reply as coming from Dear Abby), but I don't think it takes an expert to recognize the gross misconduct of both agents.

    And I don't think you have a "viable" offer. I mean, do you really want to do business with a buyer who is represented by an agent who is even more corrupt than yours? Take their offer to terminate the contract and do the same to your agent. It's pretty clear that your house would have sold much sooner with an ethical, motivated agent, and that is your best bet going forward.

    Perhaps that is the main lesson to take from this - trust and act on your own instincts much sooner.

    YMMV

     

  • 31 May 2015 10:37 AM
    Reply # 3364034 on 3362935

    Hi Mary 

    You should read your contract. There is no month to month agreement unless he added in the contract. But if you don't feel like he is representing you fairly, then yes you can fire him tell him to come pick up his sign and lockbox. Call his broker to let him know you don't want him to represent you anymore.  20 days option period?  Why so many days? Also next time you need housing assistance make sure they are a Realtor not just a real estate agent. We as Realtors have mandatory meetings about code and ethics often. If you have any questions feel free to call me 972 513 3493 .or email me . cmayra337@gmail.com... Mayra Cardenas Tx. Realtor Keller Williams Central....


  • 31 May 2015 11:05 AM
    Reply # 3364096 on 3362935

    Hello May Beth,

    I see you have several issues contributing to a high level of frustration. The discussion that follows contains many questions. I do not expect, nor do I solicit any answers. They are exclusively for your benefit, although you may consider using them as points of discussion with your REALTOR®.

    First and foremost is your current contract with a decision to be made whether to accept an amendment to the contract sale price or terminate the original contract. If you consider the merits of the 5% reduction in sale price, what will you, as seller, be giving up? Some questions to consider are:

    1. How long has your house been on the market? You indicated the initial term If your contract is with an investor, it has an attraction as an investment property. If your goal was to sell the property to an Owner/Occupant, there must be a reason this offer came from an investor, rather than from a motivated Owner/Occupant buyer.

    2. Have you had any other offers during the period of this listing? If not, why not? The only factors involved are Location, Condition, Marketing and Price. You cannot influence location. Condition and Price are within your control, and your REALTOR® has the Marketing plan. If other houses in your area and  similar to yours have been selling, what did they have that yours does not?

    3. Have you reduced the price during the period of this listing? If not, would the current contract and price reduction reflect the market price of the property? The market price is that which a motivated buyer is willing to pay and for which a motivated seller is willing to accept.

    4. What is your motivation for selling the property? Is there a sense of urgency to sell the property soon? Is it occupied or vacant? What are your current holding costs?

    5. If you terminate this contract, what can you and your REALTOR® do to improve marketing and attract a motivated buyer?

    6. If you accept this amendment for a lower price, will your needs as Seller be satisfied?

    These are all questions that you and your REALTOR® may have discussed already, but if not, now would be an appropriate time.

    The second issue involves the condition of the property. The condition of the foundation is generally one of insurability and lender approval. The condition might have satisfied those requirements when you bought the property, but time and nature have a way of allowing subtle changes to take place without detection by those living in the house. We have had a few years of extreme drought, and since January this year, an excessive amount of rainfall. It is not unreasonable to expect some foundation shifting.

    Whether or not the Buyer used a professional for the foundation inspection, if the Buyer felt strongly about repairs that might be needed, the Buyer would have estimates for identification of all issues that could contribute to foundation problems. These could include soil condition, possible existing plumbing (water or sewer) leaks, landscape drainage, tree roots, and many other things. The Buyer might also include any potential repairs needed from leveling the foundation, which would include under-slab plumbing repairs as you indicated. You certainly could have a structural engineer do an inspection. Some foundation repair companies can address most foundation issues, but unless the company has it's own structural engineer, you might not of the contributing uses the services of  

    The third issue I see is the relationship with your REALTOR®. Without knowing any details of the property, the REALTOR®, marketing strategy, etc, if you have had reason to question performance and character of the REALTOR®, you have the right to meet with the immediate supervisor and/or Broker. Facts should be presented and you should expect to gain a satisfactory resolution to your issues. If you do not feel satisfied with the resolution, you have the right to file a complaint. However, before filing a complaint, I recommend speaking with an attorney to guide you in this matter.

    Lastly, you indicated an issue with the REALTOR®/Investor, apparently one person who is the Buyer on the current contract. Whether this is one person or two (a REALTOR® bringing the Buyer (investor) to the purchase of this property), there may or may not be an ethical violation. If the REALTOR® is also the Buyer (or part owner of the Buyer's business entity), then the REALTOR® is only required to treat you honestly, not necessarily fairly. If the REALTOR® has a representation agreement with the Buyer, then the REALTOR® is legally bound to work in the Buyer's best interest, and must act as directed by the Buyer, unless such action itself would be illegal. Neither the Buyer or the Buyer's agent is obligated to disclose any information to you regarding the foundation inspection or the company that conducted that inspection.

    As a Seller myself, I sometimes overlook those things which are not important to me, but are deal killers to Buyers. I recently sold a property that had foundation issues. The issues were coincident with a 4" sewer line leak that resulted in excavating through the slab to replace more than 30' of 4" pipe, 2 branch lines and a closet connection. The plumbing repairs alone were more than $20K. My insurance company sent in a structural engineer, who did an extensive analysis and determined that the foundation was performing within specifications, and was not related to the plumbing leak (direct cause because of expansive clay soil and the effects of extreme drought). A repair was not recommended. In spite of presenting the engineer's report, the Buyer and Seller (me) agreed to a reduction of price. I did not lose money in the deal.

    Thanks,

    Terry


  • 31 May 2015 1:55 PM
    Reply # 3364241 on 3362935

    Mary Beth,

    I agree that some of these circumstances are suspicious and it may be risky for you to keep dealing with him...$53k for foundation repair?  Sounds high, but not impossible.  If you like, you can contact me (979-450-1994, comanche3000@live.com) to discuss the current disposition of the property.  And I will be glad to meet you at the property (if it's in Tarrant Co) to review the condition and help you find options or make you an offer.

    Last modified: 31 May 2015 2:20 PM | Jesus Galaviz
  • 31 May 2015 8:57 PM
    Reply # 3364659 on 3362935
    Deleted user

    FIRE YOUR AGENT NOW!  He doesn't have your best interest in mind.  Not sure why your property has been on the market so long as we have been in a seller's market for several months now.  Never accept a contract from an investor with longer than a 7 day option period.  If they are experienced investors this is all the time they need to do there due diligence.  If the foundation is an issue you need to get a structural engineer to your residence not a foundation company.  I'm in South Arlington and would be happy to provide you a FREE home evaluation once you break away from your current agent.  Feel free to contact me at Ibuyhousesin7daysatgmail.com 

  • 31 May 2015 10:21 PM
    Reply # 3364689 on 3362935

    Thank you for all the useful information and advice.  This has been weighing heavily on my mind all weekend, and your input is very helpful.  I'll answer several of the questions you have posed.

    1.  Both my agent and the buyer's agent are licensed in Texas as REALTORS on the NAR website.  My realtor is affiliated with a large reputable agency in this area.  I elected to use his services partly based on the extensive network that was offered through his agency, and partly on his very slick presentation and (self-reported) high sales volume/success.

    2.  It really does turn my stomach to consider that I am doing business with at least one very unethical person (not of my chosing however).  And I don't trust my own agent to be my best advocate as I think he has other interests at heart (Why did I have to do his job and ask for the foundation inspection?  Why wasn't critical information relayed more timely?  Why isn't he outraged about the falsified findings?  For the record, he hasn't communicated with me personally at all through this--it's always been one of his assistants).  It's probably worth the peace of mind to sever all ties and walk away with the "loss" so to speak, and start over with someone I respect.  But it's amazing what you will allow yourself to believe and get involved in when the steps leading you to that point are small and subtle--"incremental adaptation"; they add up over time though.  Lately I have really been wondering how I got to this point.

    3.  The initial listing contract that I agreed to and signed was for 6 months, however when that expired, he asked me each time to sign a monthly extension to continue listing the house for the next month.  That's what I meant by month-to-month.

    4.  The 20 day option period bothered me but I didn't say anything--I thought perhaps it was a necessary evil.  Regardless, any significant issues should have been brought to light during that time, and not 1-2 days before the end of the option period expiring on a weekend.

    5.  The current contract was signed May 11, option period expiring on May 31, closing on June 15.  The email I received Friday morning gave me two options:  terminate the contract on May 30 or accept the reduced price (and close on June 26).  I did neither.  I probably shouldn't have signed it, but after it was revealed that the foundation issues were bogus (or at least not documented by a foundation inspection) I agreed to extend the option period until June 4 to allow for a real foundation inspection.  However I think under the way the situation was presented to me, the "investor" isn't interested in getting an actual evaluation; the purpose of the ploy was to coerce me to reduce the price under pressure.  If the inspection shows no significant foundation issues, I am sure the contract in place will be terminated:   supposedly, the agent said that the "investor from Arizona" was "out" at the contract price, but that the "investor from California" would accept the additional 5% discount to offset the foundation issues.  So as the contract is written, the financing for the contracted price is no longer available.  It was to be a cash sale so financing/lending approval was not an issue.  If foundation issues are discovered, that will obviously change the discussion.

    6.  I have received a few other offers on the house recently, for comparable prices, and one of those offers resulted in a contract about a month ago.  That contract was terminated less than 48 hours later however, with no explanation, and prior to a home inspection.  It was to be a cash sale so financing wasn't an issue.

    7.  I am very motivated to sell the house (my former residence from a former marriage, vacant for quite some time) but not at a huge unreasonable loss and not so that my conscience is tormented by the process.  And though it is very important for me to sell this house, lately I have spent way too much time and energy on things not directly related to a legitimate sale and that is not a good use of my limited resources.  We all know the definition of insanity.  I need to do something different and your advice has been very helpful.  Although I probably wouldn't get honest answers if I got answers at all, I would love to ask my agent several questions as the relationship is terminated.  But I don't think that's probably a good use of my time at this point.  I don't like to be angry or consumed by negative things.

    Thanks again for all the information.  I'll keep checking back.  Would it be poor form to post the listing (thus exposing my realtor)?  I have nothing to hide.

    Mary Beth

  • 31 May 2015 11:00 PM
    Reply # 3364711 on 3362935

    Mary Beth,

    From what I gather, you won't gain much benefit from continuing to deal with that guy.  If it was me, I would terminate the contract and avoid a shady deal.  You shouldn't have to extend a 20-day option period.  There's plenty of other realtors out there, or you can get in touch with an investor (like me, 979-450-1994, comanche3000@live.com), and explore your options.

    Last modified: 01 Jun 2015 11:11 PM | Robin Carriger (Administrator)
  • 01 Jun 2015 11:10 PM
    Reply # 3366589 on 3362935
    Robin Carriger (Administrator)

    Given the content of this thread and the negative comments about the seller's agent, I have deleted the MLS # that was posted in order to protect the anonymity of that agent.  In my opinion, the things that have been shared about that agent, accurate or not, are significant enough for me to require the following of all who would like to continue to discuss this topic here.  No specifics about the agent, the brokerage, the listing (including the address of the house) or any other information that could reveal the identity of that agent should be written here.  Communicate with each other offline in whatever way you wish, but we must keep this thread generic.  This has been a valuable, educational exchange, and I commend everyone for their participation and civility thus far.  Furthermore, I invite everyone to continue to share, but let's keep it impersonal.

    Thanks,

    Robin

    Last modified: 01 Jun 2015 11:13 PM | Robin Carriger (Administrator)
  • 02 Jun 2015 10:08 AM
    Reply # 3367069 on 3362935

    Mary Beth

    It sounds as though your agent has done a very poor job of representing you.  If I were you, I would strongly consider reporting both agents to TREC.  On a positive note, if you like to speak with a realtor who is also an investor, please give me a call.  I have almost 20 years in real estate.  I also have investors looking for homes in Arlington. 

    Thanks

    Michael Garner

    972.841.5486

    mgarner@fathomrealty.com   

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